What do i say?

"MountainCommand" (MountainCommand) 12/09/2013 at 18:26 • Filed to: theanswertolifetheuniverseandeverythingis42

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My coworker is in the most desirable, frustrating, situation an opponoaut can have. Which car to buy??... Weve gone through the list of oppo approved machines and he likes pretty much all of them. But he is stuck on this at the moment. The idea of buying a forrester XT, swapping in STI liver and kidneys, and attempting to turn it in to an STI forrester. Or close to that.

Is he getting into something beyond the skill level of someone starting out on his journey as an opponaut? Any subaru elitists, owners, haters, or enthusiasts want to chime in on whether its a worthy en devour? How are handling characteristics between the two platforms?

I keep trying to push him in the 240 route. rwd, cheap enough with parts availability, endless possibilities. He likes the 300zx but, its hard for me to recommend that. Obviously no hondas because fwd. and and s2000 is out of the question. WRX's are on the table. but a turbo is what im seeing he wants.

I cant tell him what to buy, but ill tell him if its gonna be more work intensive than he thinks. idk. I love the sti'd forrester, but it doesnt strike me as a drivers car, a backroad racer, fun to drive straight-sideways-left&right.

maximillious > MountainCommand 12/09/2013 at 18:33

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There is a guy on my daily commute that goes past me every morning in a Black Forester STI. Every time i see it i get goose bumps... its a part of my commute I look forward to every day....when he isnt there I haz a Sad. I know nothing about the costs or the time needed to pull this off. But i can tell you that they are sexy as fuck and I would kill to own one myself. God they are so fucking cool

HammerheadFistpunch > MountainCommand 12/09/2013 at 18:36

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to be honest, don't bother with an sti conversion. Buy an XT, get the VF39 turbo off craigslist from someone upgrading their sit, cobb accessport it and enjoy. 340 hp easy. Its plenty nimble, and comfy and utilitarian on its own. No need to ruin it by dropping it, or putting a body kit on it. Granted thats a style over substance thing and I reside heavily on the substance side of things.

HammerheadFistpunch > MountainCommand 12/09/2013 at 18:38

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To frame my comments, my previous car was a 2005 forester xt 5 speed...and it was great! fast enough for canyon carving and most of the utility I needed.

Its actually a very VERY entertaining car to drive.

BeaterGT > MountainCommand 12/09/2013 at 18:40

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I don't see why the STI parts are necessary imo. It sounds like a Forester XT is going to be a lot more fun than what your coworker is currently driving.

MountainCommand > HammerheadFistpunch 12/09/2013 at 18:52

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what about suspension. control arms. steering rate. transmission?

My worries are it would be boring. It needs to be able to have some kick, and be able to suck you to the door in a turn.

by STI i didnt necessarily mean engine swap. He told me about the turbo swap thing, and other bits. Rather, I should say STI equivalent.

Boxer_4 > MountainCommand 12/09/2013 at 18:56

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It depends on how much mechanical skill he has. If this is his first bigger project, which it sounds like it is, then it might not be the best idea. It certainly isn't the hardest project out there, but it is a bit labor intensive. Many Forester XT/STi builds have been done, and it is fairly straight forward. There are plenty of threads on these types of builds.

Subarus are build like legos, so everything more or less fits. The fact that the Forester shares a platform with the Impreza makes everything even easier. There are some wiring differences that need to be worked out when doing the swap, and the cross-member for the STi transmission needs to be notched for the 6-speed to fit. Those are the main things that come to mind at the moment. Engine mounts, half axles, etc. should all line up and fit fine. I'm not quite sure about that era of Brembo brakes from the STi, but I believe they fit.

Budget wise, it won't be the cheapest project. Not by a long shot. In addition to finding a good base to use (a Forester XT with a manual will make the wiring significantly easier), you need to get all of the STi parts. The easiest way to make sure he gets all of the parts he needs, and for a reasonable price, would be to buy a wrecked STi. That way, you have the entire unit without most of the pieces missing. Of course, that's as long as none of the essential pieces are damaged. Does he have enough space to strip down a salvage STi, in addition to housing a Forester XT? You can recoup some of the cost of the STi by selling the remaining good body panels and interior pieces, but that can be a lot of work.

Handling wise, the Forester and Impreza share the same chassis, so they handle almost identically. Once the STi suspension is swapped in, the Forester will handle just like a slightly heavier STi. It will need "saggy butt" spacers in the rear, but that is very common problem to address.

As you can probably tell, I've though about this a fair amount. Personally, I'd love to do this to a '09-13 SH Forester, just to be a bit more out there. However, the same ideas still apply. It would certainly be an interesting project, and turn out more unique than an STi, but that does come at a price. That price requires skill, time, and space.

My advice, if he is set on getting a Forester XT, would be to hold off on the swap. The EJ257 out of the STi and the EJ255 out of the XT share the same short block. The main differences are the heads, crank, and pistons, among other things. While the stock EJ255 only puts out 224 hp, there is a lot of room for improvement. A bigger turbo, bigger injectors, better intercooler, and a tune can get it you into STi power range. Swapping in an STi EJ257 is not the only way to reach STi power.

Tell him to throw in some STi suspension and STi Brembo brakes, and just build on the stock engine to get his feet wet. There is plenty of aftermarket support for the XT, as it shares a lot of driveline components with the WRX. He'll build is skill up with every little project he does on it. If/when he blows up the EJ255, that will be the perfect time to swap it out for an EJ257. Until then, it's probably wise to just stick with whats already in there.

Hopefully I'm not forgetting anything. Also, have him search around SubaruForester.org for ideas and examples. They are a really great bunch over there.

HammerheadFistpunch > MountainCommand 12/09/2013 at 18:56

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nah, its plenty good. Besides, you want to start small, get a feel for the thing and make measured changes to it so you don't risk ruining the built in experience. If you want, buy some sti springs and pull the steering rack from an 03-04 sti, but other than that...well and maybe some different sway bars...its a pretty nippy ride all around. its got anti-dive geometry so its actually quite tall happy on lift throttle, get a different set of swaybars and tires and its really neutral and/or tail happy depending on the balance. The key is balance. Take your time, and do it right. start small and allow your confidence to build. They are easy cars to work on, but it would be overwhelming to dive right into the heavy stuff. Besides, if you don't start stock how will you appreciate the mods?

MountainCommand > maximillious 12/09/2013 at 18:57

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a good scooby always gets me excited. back in highschool a blue wrx sti with the big wing, and an exhaust would fly by every morning at the bustop. Ive been in love with those cars ever since. A girl i talked to on the bus had a boyfriend with a wrxsti and picked her up at our stop often. I wish i asked for a ride then....

Id seriously consider a boxer equipped subaru in the future. 06 or older of course.

MountainCommand > BeaterGT 12/09/2013 at 19:00

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he drives a Tacoma, which he actually drifts.... to my surprise.

But he wants the power, and the looks.

I tell him he wont be able to drift like you can with a 240.... and i dont see how the forrester looks better than a 240.. but thats just me.

maximillious > MountainCommand 12/09/2013 at 19:01

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I totally agree, they are awesome. I am all about the 2.5 RS and plan a project with one of those gorgeous Rust buckets sometime in the next year. Eventually I would love to have one all set in Matte black with all the fixins

MountainCommand > HammerheadFistpunch 12/09/2013 at 19:07

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Oh yeah, he will definitely start stock. He wants it to be how he would like it. Plus i keep telling him not to buy a modded car in order to start with a stock one.

And ive also told him, as easy as swapping a trans (or any other part) looks on the internet, and even if it is, for a ametuer like you, its not gonna be easy the first time.

Hows it like working on a awd platform. Any more difficult/annoying than a 2 wheel powered car? The subarus are pretty much like hondas in terms of plug and play parts from different cars right (for the most part).

MountainCommand > Boxer_4 12/09/2013 at 19:11

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Wow! Thanks for that info. Im going to send him your comment so he can read it directly. This should give him either a boost in wanting to follow through on buying an XT or it will sway him away. Thats the point he at right now, committing to a car. He's really into these forresters, so you may have sealed the deal. But we will see.

MountainCommand > maximillious 12/09/2013 at 19:13

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yessss 2.5rs. i just want to hoon one with the symphony of a boxer engine roaring from the behind. Id buy a beater and do naughty things to it, very naughty things....

BrownMiataDieselWagon > MountainCommand 12/09/2013 at 21:34

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Why no FWD Hondas?

BeaterGT > MountainCommand 12/09/2013 at 21:37

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Forester is one color whereas the 240 is usually comprised of several. If he enjoys getting sideways he's going to hate the feel of a Subaru.

MountainCommand > BrownMiataDieselWagon 12/09/2013 at 22:03

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Because as a prelude owner, I told him to either buy a prelude (haha) or one up me. and with the knowledge i have said to get rwd or awd. More potential for fun. Im mean, lets be real, I cant do a proper drift with my lude.

However, the ones he did like were EP3 si's. So thats not off the table entirely....

MountainCommand > BeaterGT 12/09/2013 at 22:06

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youd say one is for grip, and the other, lack thereof?

Hes gonna be pretty picky about a 240. He will have a semi decent budget to get one anyways, so good ones are within the window.

shpuker > MountainCommand 12/09/2013 at 22:27

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XT Foresters are fun as hell. I'd trade my WRX for one in a heart beat if I could find one. If he's got the money I'd say buy one, swap in a VF39, toss in an Accessport and get a pro dyno tune with multiple maps. Then put it on coilovers and a good wheel and tire combo. A good exhaust will finish it off nicely. Probably run a good $3-4k in mods but you wind up with a really fun and massively practical DD.

The VF39 upgrade usually puts down around 330bHP on a 91 tune and like 350bHP on a 93 tune. Enough to have fun but not too much as to make it unreliable.

Boxer_4 > MountainCommand 12/09/2013 at 23:00

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Glad to be of assistance. The Forester is a great car with a lot of potential. It also has that "sleeper" factor that the regular WRX and STi doesn't have. That's why the Foresters are my personal preference.

I think we will all be curious for a follow up on what he ultimately chooses.

BeaterGT > MountainCommand 12/10/2013 at 09:13

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Just get a F body and be done with it.

MountainCommand > Boxer_4 12/10/2013 at 20:59

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i will most definitely update oppo with what he goes with. It wont be until spring time, as he doesnt want to run one through the winter, and he wants to keep saving for more $ where he could potentially be in the sti price range. So he's weighing his options.

James > MountainCommand 01/17/2014 at 09:06

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Why is an s2000 out of the question? Because roadster? Admittedly, if he's looking in the STi-converted Forester direction, the s2000 seems like a totally different bag, so he just might not be into that sort of thing.

MountainCommand > James 01/17/2014 at 12:11

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Insurance for one. Cost (he doesnt want the 8grand s2k "special"...) And the necessity to buy a hardtop. He has been pretty open about cars, but we had to narrow it down to something within reach.

Now he is pretty set on a wrx sedan. no more Forrester.

Dsscats > MountainCommand 02/12/2014 at 00:24

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Why no 300zx? If you can find a clean one, they make great DD's.

MountainCommand > Dsscats 02/12/2014 at 20:16

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lol im just more amused how you found this post. I drop the word "300zx" and you are ON IT! hahahha. Dont worry, when someone mentions a prelude, im there ASAP.

Well, he would consider one if everything is right. But we havent found a good 300zx let alone a good subaru in the past 3 months now... The search is becoming very hard.

They make great DD only IF the maintenance is done. Otherwise, being it will be his first car all to himself, and limited mechanical knowhow, the engine in that car isnt the most user friendly engine to work on.